An interview and roundtable podcast where we talk about all things ColdFusion and CFML.

CFConversations 19, Roundtable 6 - 10/19/08 - The first in a series on frameworks!

This roundtable is different than the previous five roundtables on CFConversations.

Inspired by the ColdFusion Weekly roundtable on Flex frameworks, and by popular demand, this episode is part one of a two part series on ColdFusion controller-based frameworks, and the first part of an ongoing series on ColdFusion frameworks in general. Although people were asking for it, this series is something I intended to do from the very early on in this podcast's development, and it was about time to start them.

For this episode, which was recorded on Friday, October 10th, we have:

Now... are you reading this, and are saying, "Hey!!! Where's Fusebox?? Where's Model-Glue?" Well, those frameworks, as well as ColdFusion on Wheels, a framework agnostic and an anti-framework person, are represented in part two of this series, which was recorded on October 15th and is still being edited at the time of writing this post. We had to plan for two sessions, and with scheduling conflicts, this is the alignment we got. Some had advocated doing all of the major frameworks together, but that wasn't possible with scheduling. Considering how well both episodes came out, I wouldn't change a thing! :-)

We're planning to do a series of frameworks roundtables over the next few months. We'll do roundtables that discuss Dependency Injection/Inversion of Control frameworks, database/ORM frameworks, and unit testing frameworks. Those episodes have not been recorded at this time, but we're planning to do those episodes after MAX in December and into 2009.

I think you'll really enjoy this episode! It was fun to do, and we got into a lot of interesting points. What you won't hear is the 4 1/2 hour discussion most of us continued after the podcast recording was done... but, you know what they say... What happens on Skype STAYS ON Skype! :-)

Run time: 1:12:37

Comments (Comment Moderation is enabled. Your comment will not appear until approved.)
Thanks Brian! :) I wanted to give the URL to the Galleon project that was mentioned during the discussion for anyone who's interested. It can be found at Like my blogs that report hasn't had any editorial review and as I've been telling folks lately, synopsis isn't my strong suit. :P
# Posted By ike | 10/19/08 9:25 PM
Great discussion! I think Rick Mason (whom I just found I agree a lot with) did a great job pointing out that he wasn't there to defend a "no-framework" approach, but rather an "anti-complex-framework" position. Although it would have been nicer if he had had more time to explain and clarify his position.
# Posted By Oscar Arevalo | 10/20/08 2:28 PM
Yes, Oscar, I actually do agree with Rick in a lot of occasions, although I do use a big framework for most of my applications, and if I would have known that he was defending a simple framework approach, I would have touted him as such. And I intend on pushing him to release his homebrew framework!!! :-)
# Posted By Brian Meloche | 10/20/08 5:29 PM
Thanks for putting the framework roundtable together Brian. A comment was made about frameworks doing a lot of the leg work for you. A basic example is how Fusebox copies all of the URL and FORM variables into the attributes scope or all of the built in functions that are useful.

Also, it would be great to see Rick Mason's lite weight framework.
# Posted By Andrew Maurer | 10/21/08 11:27 PM
You're welcome, Andrew.

On Rick's framework, I think I've persuaded him to release the framework, on the condition that I help him improve it. When it's released, we'll certainly follow up and let people know. I'm certainly intrigued by his lightweight framework.

I've looked at other lightweight frameworks, and some of them work for me (Barney Boisvert's FB3Lite), and some of them don't (The Hub). I'm interested to see what Rick's framework is like. At the time of writing this comment, I have not seen it yet.
# Posted By Brian Meloche | 10/22/08 8:36 AM
Oh, something else I neglected to mention before - I'm also still hoping to get more participation in this survey I created. Although I realize there are a number of onTap-specific questions, there are a lot more questions in there about things that I think are pertinent to the community as a whole, like what people look for in a general controller framework, opinions about Java, etc. So once I have more participation in this survey I plan to publish the results so everyone can benefit from it.

I will also say that even though the sample size is still fairly small, I've personally been surprised by some of the results thus far. It seems that some of my thoughts about the preferences of people in the ColdFusion community are turning out to have been based more on rumor than reality. That's good to know, because it will help me know what to focus on when I work on feature enhancements and presentations. :)
# Posted By ike | 10/22/08 4:14 PM
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